Good morning my catholic compadres and welcome to the first installment of Catholic Manhood’s Sunday Brew. Each Sunday, I wake up with the sun, brew a hot cup of joe and jot down my ponderings on life, love, faith and pretty much anything that comes to mind. I think for today, I will limit myself to only a couple of topics, as I have to get to Mass much earlier than usual.
Congratulations and prayers for your growing family!
I’m not sure if “the vast majority” is what should be the qualifier for changing the meaning of words. I think of “marriage” as a relevant example, but maybe “life” could be more useful with your article. Words get misused and abused, and I see the importance in fighting for meaning. Liberal is another example that comes to mind; people feel they have to say a classic liberal because liberal has been socially altered. I can respect someone wanting to say “I’m liberal.” with original meaning and defining the new hijackers as something else.
If this is the professor’s perspective on progressive, I can absolutely relate. He could possibly want people to know that to be Catholic is to fight for social reform. Digitizing the Bible and sharing it through different forms that didn’t exist before sounds progressive. I certainly support that. And to support that view doesn’t mean I have to throw away physical bibles or discount word of mouth evangelism but can use both/and. I think for this professor specifically, liturgical twerking might be a straw-man example. If it’s not, then I’d follow up to say defining “progressive” with 21st century eyes sounds very modern and non-traditional.
I’m just now entertaining some other thoughts: I hear Catholics say traditional Catholic or authentic Catholic, and I’m not certain why, but to say Catholic itself is already full of tradition and authenticity and could therefore seem redundant. I’m in total agreement (as of now, I will have to hear what Elisha has to say) on not putting words in front, at least as often as we tend to.
I’m curious whether early Church fathers or Doctors of the Church used adjectives in front of “Catholic”.
What if Catholics did not use adjectives for themselves but rather to distinguish others from them, Eg. non-practicing, appropriating, inauthentic, etc?
Catholic is such a loaded word that it makes me wonder if every word would appear redundant or counter to its meaning and it’s why it should stand alone. Nope, not every adjective. “one” would be very appropriate to use in front of “Catholic”.
Hi Patrick, thanks for commenting! Regarding the word liberal and what that words means, even classically liberal isn't much more respectable. Liberalism is truly a net bad and a large amount of the world's problems come from the ideas of liberalism and really is pretty contradictory to the teachings of the Catholic Faith.
I do not really have an issue with how he explained it where he says "I am open to being wrong", however I do have an issue with the ambiguity of his answer. The reform you are speaking about is really a means to evangelization and I am all for the digitization of the Gospel as well. But, we cannot deny the fact that progressivism is progressivism and has had the same, anti-catholic meaning since its conception. I understand it is anecdotal and I hope that I am wrong, but I am willing to wager my life savings that anyone who puts "LGBT" or "progressive" in front of the word Catholic, has a very subjective view of their religion and will almost definitely have sympathy for the ideas of changing doctrine to allow for abortion/ birth control or other "hot" topics. I mentioned the liturgical twerking to emphasize the point that the issues that "progressive" catholics push are really stupid and really are the same old song of gay marriage blessings, etc. The arguments they adhere to have been answered time and time again. Just because Vatican 2 happened doesn't mean there was suddenly a new church. Although I still need to pray for those who reject Vatican 2 outright, sadly.
I would assume that using those adjectives to distinguish oneself from other types of Catholic or to distinguish the other way is a net bad and probably hurts the unity of the Church.
Lastly, I could not agree more with your last sentence and also could not, in a million years convey that better than you did in a few short words.
thanks so much for making this little blog better with your views on the matter. I really appreciate your contribution, Mr. Parris!
While I agree with you that liberalism is pretty contrary to Catholicism, I would have more in common with a liberal of old than a liberal of new when it comes to values and therefore give more respect to their views. For example, "get the government out of my marriage and leave it to the Church" (liberal of old) versus a policy for mandating that a church must give me a blessing over my same-sex relationship (liberal of new).
I agree using adjectives in my suggested manner could hurt the unity of the Church. Bad idea there. Well said.
To our other point, it seems Pope Francis isn’t much for redundant adjectives either. This is a quick read:
I think as adjectives, both could be used with the other and that is because they aren’t a linear comparison. It’s not like small and big where they are nearly perfect antonyms. Or regressive and progressive or satanist and Catholic. Because catholic means diverse and the Church is universal, there can be a variety of ways to express our faith. Progressive elements may be one way to do that. Ultimately, like you and the holy father, I believe it’s best to avoid adjectives in front completely.
Democratic Republic comes to mind. You could say either you’re a democrat or republican, but if you make one an adjective you can have elements of one that don’t completely contradict the foundational element that is the noun. It could be a republican democracy that we live in, but just switching the two words around is quite different. Maybe Catholic progressives are the ones pushing for twerking at liturgy (I love that I’ve gotten to write that out twice so far) while progressive Catholics might push for digital evangelization. But o would understand if the follow up question is whether we can tell what noun is really their identity.
Congratulations and prayers for your growing family!
I’m not sure if “the vast majority” is what should be the qualifier for changing the meaning of words. I think of “marriage” as a relevant example, but maybe “life” could be more useful with your article. Words get misused and abused, and I see the importance in fighting for meaning. Liberal is another example that comes to mind; people feel they have to say a classic liberal because liberal has been socially altered. I can respect someone wanting to say “I’m liberal.” with original meaning and defining the new hijackers as something else.
If this is the professor’s perspective on progressive, I can absolutely relate. He could possibly want people to know that to be Catholic is to fight for social reform. Digitizing the Bible and sharing it through different forms that didn’t exist before sounds progressive. I certainly support that. And to support that view doesn’t mean I have to throw away physical bibles or discount word of mouth evangelism but can use both/and. I think for this professor specifically, liturgical twerking might be a straw-man example. If it’s not, then I’d follow up to say defining “progressive” with 21st century eyes sounds very modern and non-traditional.
I’m just now entertaining some other thoughts: I hear Catholics say traditional Catholic or authentic Catholic, and I’m not certain why, but to say Catholic itself is already full of tradition and authenticity and could therefore seem redundant. I’m in total agreement (as of now, I will have to hear what Elisha has to say) on not putting words in front, at least as often as we tend to.
I’m curious whether early Church fathers or Doctors of the Church used adjectives in front of “Catholic”.
What if Catholics did not use adjectives for themselves but rather to distinguish others from them, Eg. non-practicing, appropriating, inauthentic, etc?
Catholic is such a loaded word that it makes me wonder if every word would appear redundant or counter to its meaning and it’s why it should stand alone. Nope, not every adjective. “one” would be very appropriate to use in front of “Catholic”.
Hi Patrick, thanks for commenting! Regarding the word liberal and what that words means, even classically liberal isn't much more respectable. Liberalism is truly a net bad and a large amount of the world's problems come from the ideas of liberalism and really is pretty contradictory to the teachings of the Catholic Faith.
I do not really have an issue with how he explained it where he says "I am open to being wrong", however I do have an issue with the ambiguity of his answer. The reform you are speaking about is really a means to evangelization and I am all for the digitization of the Gospel as well. But, we cannot deny the fact that progressivism is progressivism and has had the same, anti-catholic meaning since its conception. I understand it is anecdotal and I hope that I am wrong, but I am willing to wager my life savings that anyone who puts "LGBT" or "progressive" in front of the word Catholic, has a very subjective view of their religion and will almost definitely have sympathy for the ideas of changing doctrine to allow for abortion/ birth control or other "hot" topics. I mentioned the liturgical twerking to emphasize the point that the issues that "progressive" catholics push are really stupid and really are the same old song of gay marriage blessings, etc. The arguments they adhere to have been answered time and time again. Just because Vatican 2 happened doesn't mean there was suddenly a new church. Although I still need to pray for those who reject Vatican 2 outright, sadly.
I would assume that using those adjectives to distinguish oneself from other types of Catholic or to distinguish the other way is a net bad and probably hurts the unity of the Church.
Lastly, I could not agree more with your last sentence and also could not, in a million years convey that better than you did in a few short words.
thanks so much for making this little blog better with your views on the matter. I really appreciate your contribution, Mr. Parris!
While I agree with you that liberalism is pretty contrary to Catholicism, I would have more in common with a liberal of old than a liberal of new when it comes to values and therefore give more respect to their views. For example, "get the government out of my marriage and leave it to the Church" (liberal of old) versus a policy for mandating that a church must give me a blessing over my same-sex relationship (liberal of new).
I agree using adjectives in my suggested manner could hurt the unity of the Church. Bad idea there. Well said.
To our other point, it seems Pope Francis isn’t much for redundant adjectives either. This is a quick read:
https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/speeches/2019/september/documents/papa-francesco_20190923_dicastero-comunicazione.html What this article really made me rethink is how Catholic and progressive are both nouns and adjectives, homophones and homographs which complicate the meaning when reading. With that I would propose a consideration for the end of your original post. “One is either a progressive or a Catholic”
I think as adjectives, both could be used with the other and that is because they aren’t a linear comparison. It’s not like small and big where they are nearly perfect antonyms. Or regressive and progressive or satanist and Catholic. Because catholic means diverse and the Church is universal, there can be a variety of ways to express our faith. Progressive elements may be one way to do that. Ultimately, like you and the holy father, I believe it’s best to avoid adjectives in front completely.
Democratic Republic comes to mind. You could say either you’re a democrat or republican, but if you make one an adjective you can have elements of one that don’t completely contradict the foundational element that is the noun. It could be a republican democracy that we live in, but just switching the two words around is quite different. Maybe Catholic progressives are the ones pushing for twerking at liturgy (I love that I’ve gotten to write that out twice so far) while progressive Catholics might push for digital evangelization. But o would understand if the follow up question is whether we can tell what noun is really their identity.